Noah Evslin - TV writer and Producer, and his journey there

Noah Evslin has a resume that would impress just about anyone. Someone I've been following on Twitter for quite some time, and now a huge fan of his screenwriting podcast he does with his friend Dan Rutstein, Screaming Into The Hollywood Abyss; I knew I had to reach out and see if Noah could take some time to chat with me about his career and how he started. Luckily, for me and for you, he actually said yes! 

Currently writing on NCIS: Hawai'i, Noah's also worked on shows such as Hawaii Five-O, Colony, The Catch, Grey's Anatomy, Scandal, How To Get Away With Murder, Scandal: The Secret is Out, and Private Practice. Impressed? I thought so. So keep reading on to hear how he got into writing and tips for writers looking to follow in his footsteps. 

How did he start writing?

He comes from a family of writers. His grandfather was a mythologist who wrote 70 books of Greek mythology, some Broadway plays, he was also a TV and film writer in Hollywood in the 1950's and 60's. His wife, Noah's grandmother, was also a writer. His great uncle was a U.S. Poet Laureate. Writing was extremely important on that side of the family. So he also wrote his entire life. Growing up, in Hawai'i, he'd visit his grandparents in New York every year and hear them typing or hear his grandfather talking into his audio cassette to dictate to himself. His study impressed him too and he thought, that's a great life, not realizing how financially risky being a writer is. He saw that there was sometimes lots of wealth in his grandfather's life and then sometimes nothing, but he didn't put the two together that writing and instability go hand-in-hand. 

The writing torch was passed onto him

Noah's grandparents flew to Hawai'i for his High School graduation. Then one day, his grandfather dove into a pool and passed away. It became Noah's job to tell his grandma what happened to his grandfather. So he went with his grandma to visit the morgue, as one does in this situation. And his grandmother said, "It's your turn now to be the writer in the family." And so he did. 

What type of writing did he start with 

He started writing a lot of poetry, even though he doesn't write a lot now. But from 18-25 years old he wrote hundreds of poems. He loved he was able to create snapshots of life in a clear and clean way. Then after that, he wrote three novels (that he says are bad, but do we really know?), during college and right after, plus one book of non-fiction. But that kind of prose didn't feel right to him. He started to publish some poems, but he knew there wasn't a career in that. 

When did he write his first screenplay?

He was 27-year-old when he started screenwriting. It felt like the perfect pairing of poetry and prose for him. He could create the types of scenes he wanted to. So he got a hold of every screenplay book he could find. And he wrote ten screenplays before he even moved to Hollywood. 

He really began earlier than that 

At 22, his brother-in-law at the time who loved movies, and was a writer, asked him one day, "Do you want to try writing a screenplay together?" He and his brother-in-law loved Brother's McMullen, which are the types of movies they liked back then, family stories, that were popular at the time. But they didn't even know how to start, they didn't even know there was a screenplay format. So they wrote part of a screenplay, but never even finished. 5 years later, that's when he tried again. Around the time of the TV show Lost, is when he realized people were writing TV shows and movies, and that it was a thing you could. 

What did he write first, TV scripts or movies? 

He started writing movies, because he wanted to write things about Hawai'i and where he was from. He also did admit, (embarrassingly) that he wrote a spec Entourage script, that placed in some contests. (I will admit that I did like watching it, even if he's embarrassed by it!) Then he also did an adaption of one of his grandfather's books. The combination of both of these scripts got him an agent. Hurrah! 

What made him make the move to LA? 

His wife was very instrumental in helping him make that decision. She felt after he had written a few screenplays, he had to see if he could give Hollywood a chance. And turns out his older sister had a close friend that was a staff writer on Studio 60 On The Sunset Strip for Aaron Sorkin, and his aunt's best friend's daughter was a mid-level writer on Gilmore Girls. His aunt said, reach out to Jennie and send a screenplay and she gave him her email. When he emailed Jennie he asked, what are my odds of making it as a writer? And he did the same with the writer on Studio 60. Both said after reading his scripts, they felt he should come to Hollywood. That Jennie turned out to be Jennie Snyder Urman, who is the writer and creator of Jane The Virgin and went onto be very successful. They're still in touch. His sister's friend ended up giving his two scripts to her manager who signed him and a week later had all his stuff sent out to agents and he was signed. Just as he was moving to Hollywood he thought, this isn't very difficult. But then cut to two years later and he still hadn't booked a job and left his agent. It was eye-opening. 

What did it take to make it? 

At the same time he was getting agents and managers, he had friends who were just as talented and didn't have the same momentum as he did. He attributes it to that same old adage we hear about time and time again: luck. He felt it was good fortune that these two people were able to help him and were willing to help him in a way, that he later learned was unusual. 

How do you know when you're ready?

Many newbie writers compare their writing to the worst writing they see out there. But Noah's advice is to compare your writing to the top in the industry. The Shonda Rhimes, Aaron Sorkins of the world. LIke it or not, you're in competition with the best. He knew early on that was the line he had to cross. Even if now he doesn't think he's as good as an Aaron Sorkin, he says you still have to be in a sphere where it makes people lean in, and it makes them love your work. 

How did he know he was ready for the industry?

He has really mixed feelings about contests. They can be helpful as a gauge. But they're really expensive. And so many contests don't really help someone with their career. Even early in Noah's career once he had become a professional writer, and he would put those contests on his resume, people in the industry would say, you can take those off. He said once you've sold something, it won't matter once you've moved forward. What it did for him, when he was a finalist, top 3, it showed enough people liked his script. 

How long did it take to get into the WGA? 

It took him from 32-36 years of age to get into the WGA. Even though his Greek mythology project was very commercial and got him 80 meetings around town. Yes, 80! Two of his projects that he thought would make his career take off, they eventually fell through. (Oh, I know that feeling!) He can either say it took him 4 years from when he got to Hollywood to get a sale. Or he can say it took him 9 years from when he wrote his first screenplay. 

How soon after was the next sale? 

It was still a couple more years till the next sale. He tells me, you realize there is no roller coaster you get on, and that moment you make that first sale, and it takes you up and that's your career. It doesn't happen like that. You're only on your own clock and you have to break in all over again, and again, and again. 

How did you land your first industry job? 

His writer friend was friends with a high-level writer, who worked with Shonda Rhimes, and he told Noah he could bring him in as a Writer's Assistant (WA). This friend a year later became the Showrunner on Private Practice and asked Noah if he wanted to be the WA. It was a Writer's PA, there were three of them doing this job because there were multiple rooms at a time. He was 35 years old at the time, he had been a lecturer at University at Hawai'i for 7 years, he had a production/promotion company, they DJd and did live concerts, he had 130 employees, and 7 fullt-ime employees, they had a record company where they put out Hawai'i records. So he and his wife had to leave ALL of that and go to LA and try the writing thing. Wow! 

Saying good-bye to your roots

They owned a house on Kuaui and they felt they could go to LA and could always go back if they needed to. He felt all of that was still there waiting for him. Even 15 years later, he could always go back and continue on with that career if he needed. He was giving up a lot but it was always still there. Knowing he left that all behind, as a Writers Assistant, he's left being a boss and being in charge to get coffee for people. 

What would he tell other people wanting to be a Writers Assistant

Every Writer's Assistant that's been on a Shondaland project have all gone on to do well. Most of them were about his age, they weren't in their 20's, which is something we hear. They were all a little bit older and everyone who worked with them liked that that they were actually a bit older. Someone told him, "Take joy in serving coffee and just do a good job. Everyone knows you're a writer, they know you can write well, that's why you're here, just do a good job as an assistant." Within three months the Medical Researcher left the show and they gave the job to Noah. As a Medical Researcher on a medical show, he was in the room all the time, doing research, giving writers stories. 

What did he do well to get noticed for that promotion

He thinks because his father was a doctor, and his sister was a Phd Therapist, he understood the language of medicine. They wanted to promote internally and knew he could handle the job. 

The next job was a staff job 

From there his got his first staff writing job which was a freelance script. Then the show was ending and his mentor left the show. He thought that was it. So he went back to Hawai'i for vacation. And he got a call and the person said, "Please hold for Shonda Rhimes". (OMG that's the call we all want right?) She offered him a job to be one of her producers. He still doesn't know why out of 900 people, 3 shows, why would he fit that role out of everyone else. He said there were times before that they did work closely together, so whatever he did to impress her, it worked. 

His role as a Creative Producer 

He handled all the things Shonda didn't want to handle on the day-to-day stuff on her shows. He directed shorts, interstitial stuff, a lot of producing, some writing. They needed someone to handle all the rest; product integration, marketing, promo shoots. Then he also was in charge of their social media. And at the time, that's right when social media was starting. Kerry Washington mixed with Shonda Rhimes on Scandal, decided to live-tweet a show with actors. It ended up being the biggest social media in the industry. He came in at the right time. But it just wasn't where he wanted to be. He loved it but it wasn't what he really wanted to do. He wanted to be a writer on a show. 

How he turned that into being a staff writer 

Everyone on his shows knew he was a writer and knew he wanted to write. So when there was down time he kept working on his own scripts. But it taught him he could write anywhere, any time. He feels many assistants have this skill. He sold three pilots before he left Shonda Rhimes. His agent and manager told him stay as long as you can till you're staffed. (Good point, right writers?) He waited till he had so much work till it wasn't fair to his producing job. Then when that moment came, he went on staff. That was when he started as a writer on Colony. His job got much more fulfilling because it's what he wanted to do. But also was scarier cause there was no longer a steady paycheck. Once you're a staff writer, shows come and go and you have to keep finding work. 

Are there opportunities there for emerging/newbie writers? 

He does think there are. There's at least 500 scripted TV shows. (Maybe even 700). So if there are anywhere from 4 or 5 writers to 10-15 writers per show, that's upwards of 5000 jobs in play every year. That's all TV. Features, maybe a 300-1000 feature writers a year, not as many. There's still cache in TV about being a feature writer. If you're a good one, you can get on a TV show. But in the last five years good dramatic writing is in TV. There just aren't as many indie movies. The industry is looking more towards TV writers, they work fast, they have a style that can work for film as well, they're used to taking notes. His advice, come in on the TV side and you can always branch off into the movie side. Learn to write on a deadline, how to write to various bosses, learn how to work fast and get things to screen, and getting to production. 

What's the advice you'd give to writers entering this field 

"Make sure you love what you do because it's a hard journey. You don't get fired in Hollywood in a traditional sense. You might lose a job. There might be years in between jobs. But the only person that makes you stop this journey is you. The only way you lose is if metaphorically you take off those boxing gloves, or take off those skates. If you love it and you're determined, whether you're an aspiring writer or have one foot in the game, or are completely in. The length of your career depends on your ability to stay motivated, stay excited and stay in the game. There are very few short term wins. There are very few people that sell a big project. It takes a long time. If you can't wait it out, this might not be the right field for you. This is a 5, 10, 15, 20 year journey. If you have another job to sustain yourself as a writer, you're better suited to success in this business. Assuming everyone has the same amount of talent, luck. One thing that separates those from success is perseverance. You have to keep moving forward. There's also nothing wrong with stopping. Some people decide this isn't for me. I was surrounded by talented people that gave up. They had the talent. They gave it 2 or 3 years and realized it wasn't easy. But if you love it and stay in it, and have the right amount of talent. Which a lot of people have. Then it's just a matter of time. Wait it out. Put yourself in a position financially with another job, or living simply that allows you to wait it out or stay in the game." 

So much amazing advice from Noah Evslin. I could have kept talking to him forever. If you want to listen to his podcast, please check it out. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/screaming-into-the-hollywood-abyss/id1542533659

He said, she said

So I've got a few projects in the works. They're all pretty exciting. One, if it works out, will be getting to one of my favorite comedian actor's production company. That same project will also be getting to one of the biggest agencies in Hollywood. "IF" it works out. See, the other two people involved in creating the story with me, there have been issues with making an agreement. I don't have an agent, so that's really the problem. If I had an agent, none of this would be a problem. That agent would say, here's your contract. End of story. So meanwhile you have me, the only writer, and two people who aren't in the business who are working on the story with me.

So what you find out when there's the possibility of a movie getting made, money happening, things get interesting fast. Nothing bad. No one meant any harm. But trying to get three people to agree on who should get what credit and what % if and when it sells/made. Is not that easy. Tensions get high. People's feelings get hurt. Oh the drama!

For me, I just keep trying to get everyone to talk. Keep trying to make everyone happy and make sure everyone felt like they were getting what they wanted. I was even willing to give people more than maybe they deserved, if it meant the script would get made and to the right people. For me, as a writer, getting it to these big Hollywood people was the brass ring I wanted to grab. A lot of our conversations happened through texts and emails, and I can say, that I learned that was a mistake. So yesterday, I got on the phone with one of the people, and amazingly, that seemed to be the trick. It didn't happen immediately. At one point, maybe many times even, I felt the project was going to be dead in the water. But by the end of the conversation, we actually found a way to make everyone happy. For the first time in weeks, it seemed things were moving and back on the table.

Then he spoke to the other person today. Yes, talked to her on the phone today. And he texted me after. And now, guess what, I think we agreed on a deal we can all be happy with! It's amazing what a phone call can do. Sometimes, picking up the phone is just what needs to happen. Graham Bell knew what he was doing, I guess!

So I also have a movie getting made this month, and just today more drama with one of the writers. I don't think it was anything he said intentionally that caused problems with the producer. I tried to gently let the producer know this. But she's not hearing it. Oh, again, the drama! I talked to the writer later and let him know I'll see what I can do to iron things out. I'm not sure I can. I'm not sure how or why I seem to be ending up the mediator in all these situations? All I can say, and if this helps you, is through all this, just remain calm. Try to see it from the other person's side. Be the one that's the calm in all of the mayhem. But boy, all of this is exhausting me. I may be calm on the outside. But I sure look forward to having an agent do all this for me someday!

You can take a hit

In the boxing world, if a guy gets hit, he gets back up. That's his(her) job. He gets hit, he gets back up. He gets hit, he gets back up. Well, writing is no different. I mean, metaphorically of course. Hopefully we aren't really getting hit. But each step we take in screenwriting has so many chances for us to feel like we got knocked down. But we can't stay down. We have to get back up. And each time we do, it moves us closer and closer to seeing our dreams of being a paid screenwriter come to fruition.

I remember my first time I had to print out a script at Kinko's. I was so scared to take it there. I know, silly. But I was! I lived in Hollywood and was so afraid that only "real" screenwriters printed scripts. And that if I went there, they'd laugh at me and tell everyone there, "Get a load of this girl who thinks she's a writer!" Okay, little did I know that there were thousands of other people trying to be screenwriters too and they didn't give it so much as a glance. But for me, that was a hit. I had to take that chance that I'd get knocked down. And it didn't happen that time, I dodged that hit and that allowed me to go in for the next possible hit. Taking more screenwriting classes. Joining writing groups and getting critiqued. Entering contests! Sending out queries! There were rejections upon rejections. There have been many. But they have also opened me up to "yeses" too. So you have to take those hits. Because without the hits, we wouldn't have the success. And each hit makes us stronger and stronger.

So do it. Go for it. You have to at least try or you'll never know if you could have one day been the champ. Okay, that's really corny. But hey, I had to go for the whole boxing thing, didn't I? But you get what I'm saying. Keep trying. The bell hasn't run yet!

When it finally all clicks

I was reading an article by a writer who's finally getting noticed by Hollywood. And she said how all of a sudden she knew her scripts were ready when it just all clicked. I know that feeling and maybe you do too. But if you don't, that's okay too. It just means you're still at the learning point of your writing career. It's not something you can force. It's not something you can rush. Developing the tools to become a writer that will get you hired and sell your scripts is like a fine wine, it takes time. It takes studying the craft, learning as much as you can, and getting comfortable with breaking the rules you've learned.

I always wondered if I'd know when I finally "got it". Believe me, I felt many times before that I was there. But most recently I've rewritten two scripts, one for a producer and one with a writing partner. And both scripts, I just could tell I'd be able to figure out how to fix these rewrites. I could see it clearly. I'm not saying it came easy. Oh no. Especially the one for the producer. Since that was a page 1 rewrite, I was basically starting from scratch. But once I knew the new story, then I knew what had to be done. And I could tell what beats to hit and what would make the story flow in the best way it could.

And the rewrite with the writing partner, I could see it as clear as day what had to happen to make it a strong enough script to be ready to go out. I could just tell that something had changed in my writing. Maybe it's like hiting puberty. You don't really know you're in it while you are. But when you get to the other side of it, and you've got boobs or a hairy chest (hopefully not both!) then you realize, wow, I've blossomed!

So keep at it if you're not there. There's no waste of studying your craft, no waste of reading scripts, analyzing movies. It all helps you get to where hopefully you will be having meetings and selling scripts and seeing your ideas on the big or little screen. We can all hope it's sooner than later!

Batman??? Really?

So yes, I know, there's been tons said on why Ben Affleck should or shouldn't be Batman. And yes, it's probably all been said to death. But I have my own opinion and here it is. But before I do, let's start at the beginning. First off, of course I was a Ben Affleck fan after he and Matt Damon won their first Oscar for Good Will Hunting. They were a true Hollywood story of kids seeming to come out of nowhere to go on to win an Oscar for their very first movie they wrote, plus starred-in. They had me at "I'd like to thank the Oscars".

Then Affleck goes on to do other movies, where I wasn't so fond of his acting. Shakespeare In Love, wasn't a fan of him, even if I loved the movie. Many other movies he was in, I chose not to see him, because I just wasn't sure acting was his forte. Maybe the Oscar was a fluke? I like many, I wasn't on his side. Then of course the years of where "Hollywood and its fans truly gave up on him"period. I was in that crowd too.

But then came the rumblings of how he was writing and directing and how great his movies were. Gone Baby Gone. Definitely impressed. But still, I was wary. Could this really be Affleck? Did he really have the talent we all thought he did? Or was it just a fluke? Then Argo happened. I went to see it willingly, happily, thinking, this movie is going to be good, and maybe yes, Affleck was a power to be reckoned with. I saw Argo and was hooked from the moment the movie started till the end. Yes, he was good, he was very, very good. When it won Best Movie, I was glad, and I knew it deserved it.

Then word comes of him wanting to play Batman. A role that many think is left for only the super stars of Hollywood. But the superhero fans think, nope not him. How dare he! Some stand behind him, but I doubt as many as the naysayers. But, you know what? I'm going to stand behind him too. Because you know why? Hollywood loves an underdog. And although he's proven himself as a director and producer, he still has yet to prove himself as a power house actor. At least when it comes to the fans. Because if he had proven himself, there weren't be grumblings of him being able to pull this off. I bet you he does it though, and surprises all those non-believers. Because this is his chance as an actor to redeem himself. And although he has redeemed himself as a producer, writer and director, he still wants to do it in acting too. I'm there, I'm behind him, and I want to see him pull it off. And something I never thought I'd find myself saying, but I'm on team Ben.

Where's the marching band?

So I had a meeting with the big producer I've been working with since last year. We were finally going to meet on the outline for the story we're developing together. So I expected at least two or three rounds of notes on the outline before I got to write the script. Well, guess what? He tells me he has almost no notes and that he'll email me what he has. But that basically I should start writing the script! Woo hoo! The words I've longed to hear since last year! He tells me to start sending him pages, 20 at a time. I'm just ecstatic! He also tells me he's going to set me up with a manager, and starts naming all these A-list managers. Woo hoo again! I couldn't believe it! Pinch me please!

So then I leave his office so excited and I'm texting my husband, "Good news!" And I'm walking to my car. And then I drive home to pick up my son from school. And then we do homework. And well, that's it! I had to live my life just the way I did before I got the good news! And I was like, wait, isn't something amazing supposed to happen after I get such amazing news?! Isn't there some awesome marching band like out of Dr. Seuss's book where the boy looks out the window and some fantastical band just marches past him. I wanted that! I wanted horns, and confetti, and something amazing! But that didn't happen. It was good news, and life went on.

And now, I'm writing the script, but just like every other day. I guess it just means all those normal days when I was writing scripts just for me, they were preparing me for the day when I'd be writing it for someone this big in Hollywood. So even though there's nothing as earth shattering as I was hoping it could be, it means I'm prepared for it. And truthfully, that's exciting enough.

Who's making a kids movie???

I have a nine-year-old son. So we see a lot of the animated movies that come out. For the most part, they're really good. The occasional stinkard comes out and we pass it up. But once in awhile a kid's movie comes out and it's directed/produced/written by the last person on earth that should be directing a kid's movie. Now I know, if you have power in Hollywood you can do anything you want. But I really do think someone needs to tell these people, "You can't direct this movie! You don't understand kids!" For instance, Speed Racer. Yes, I love the Wachowski team. I was mesmerized by the Matrix and left the theater in awe of them. But Speed Racer? I took my son when he was six years old. It was rated PG so I thought, how bad can it be??? There was nothing resembling the Speed Racer TV show I loved. It was all CGI effects with not much of a story line that was worth following. I'm sure in their mind it was exactly what they had hoped for. But the fact that it was aimed at kids too. Really??? The amount of cursing. The amount of violence. Please, make it a PG 13! My son was bored out of his mind and asked to leave 20 minutes into it. I was more than happy as no way did I want to subject my son to this. And if the story line was good, if the effects at all resembled my favorite childhood cartoon and not some futuristic race car world, then yes, I would have kept him and covered his eyes. Now this year is the holiday movie Rise of the Guardians, directed by Guillermo del Toro. He wrote Pan's Labyrinth which was one of my favorite dark movies of all time! Brilliant from start to finish. But Rise of the Guardians? Taken from the article written on deadline.com "$32.6M domestic box office for the five-day Thanksgiving holiday made it, in Janney Capital Markets’ Tony Wible’s words, “one of the most disappointing releases in the company’s history.”" Okay, my son could have predicted this. And in fact, did. When he saw the previews he said, "We are not going to see that. That does not look good." And when I saw the animation for it, I agreed. I could tell it was not geared toward any children I knew. So what gives? Yes Guillermo also worked on Kung Fu Panda 2 which my son and I loved. But maybe because it was already a strong franchise, he handled that well. But he also did Puss And Boots which again, my son had no desire to see! So what gives Hollywood? Why do you allow people like Guillermo and Wachowski to do children's movies when there are obviously so many other talented folks in Hollywood that will know how to appeal to kids? I'm not sure what the answer is. Other than to have Hollywood stand up to these successful powerhouses and say, "Nope! You don't get to work on this film!" Or if they can't do that, they just invite a room full of your target audience to see the storyboards and see if it even interests them! I guarantee you'll save the studio millions of dollars. If you're not sure who to find, I have a 9-year-old that so far has never been wrong. Luckily my latest holiday script I want to write he's given a thumbs up.

writing genres that don't go together

So years ago I wanted to write a superhero story. This was before the resurgence of the superhero movies, mind you. But mine wasn't like Spiderman or Superman. No. It was a comedy of a superhero. And since this was before the resurgence of superhero films, it was also before anyone had ever thought of combining comedies with superheroes. So when I asked a fellow writer, one who was actually writing for a TV show, what he thought. His opinion was, "You can't combine genres!" And it was fact, as he put it. That no one would EVER do that. Yeah, well, flash forward a couple years and there were tons of comedy super hero movies. Meanwhile, I'd seen a few that had stronger concepts than mine. So okay, maybe mine wasn't the right kind of comedy superhero film. But I will say what I learned from that, was to trust my judgement. Don't listen to other writers or producers say, "You can NEVER do such and such" and "Such and such type of movies are totally out!" Because believe me, someone will do it, and it will work. And someone will write a type of movie that might have been out, but do it so well, they can bring it back. Write what you love! Write what YOU want to write. But do it well. And if you do it well, you can never go wrong. Trust that if you feel the need to write it, it needs to be told. Of course, if you're trying to make a career in Hollywood, it does need to be commercial. So I'm not saying every single story will get made. But if you make it high-concept and you write it well, it will get the attention it deserves. And if you go against what Hollywood thinks you should do, you just may get even more attention for breaking the rules.